Nail Notes--April-May, 2003

Edited by Rolland Meyers

Subject: Nail Notes 4-11-03
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:58:13 -0600

#########.####.#######.NAIL NOTES.##.#######.#########
From: "Jerry Berg" <jberg@lane.k12.or.us>
I have a lot of duplicates I'd be willing to trade for ones I need.
Extras I have are 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 37, 39, 40, 41, 42.
I'm looking for 5, 6, 10, 11, 13 - 22, 43, 44, 45 and 47 - ?

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Question from the editor <rollandmeyers@compuserve.com>:
Has anyone on this list seen or pulled a 1925 type (39), 2 x 1/4 round
indented, steel nail??  This is supposed to have the normal "diamond"
point and not a chiesel point.  This nail has been attributed to the
Canadian National sets, both maritime and western provinces.  In my
questioning I can find no one that has this nail or has even seen it.
So I would appreciate any input at all regarding this nail.  Thanks.

########.#####################.#.#####
The Winter issue of Nailer News (Vol. 33 No. 1) was mailed to TDNCA
members the first week in March.  It was twenty four pages  and
contained the following:

1       New 36 (18B) pentagon nail found by Rolland Meyers
2       In Memory;  regarding the passing of Larry Fister/
        Mention of Spring show and  membership dues reminder.
3.      Notes from the editors desk
4-5     Article by Charles Sebesta [editor of Nailer News]
        regarding type (18C) round indent nails found at a
        Phelps Dodge open pit mine in Arizona.  These nails
        were marked 1-12, 49 and 50.
6-10    Article by Jeff Oaks on the use of nails and wood
        preservation of ties used by the Lehigh Valley RR.
        The history of plants and the make up of the LV
        datenail set.
11      How a date nail collectors' wife (Nancy Dunson) found
        a Santa Fe "stubby" 1. [photos]
12-15   An Interesting use of Date Nails on the Erie by George
        Oliva, Jr.  How the Erie used date nails to tie down
        sheet metal along the r.o.w. and some variations of
        nails found by George.
16      Santa Fe Valley Division Date Nails; as related by Scott
        Wiesemann to Glen Icanberry.  Crew finds some nails while
        working on the Valley Division.
17-18   1929 Nails of the Milwaukee Road by Rolland Meyers; the
        nails used by the Milwaukee Road in 1929, with photos. /
        Jeff Oaks' Book ad / Mention of Summer Date Nail show.
19      On the Move:  New addresses of moving members of the TSNCA
20      New Members:  new and renewing members of the TDNCA /
        Photo of a 1951 (05) rr nail by Rolland Meyers
21      Classified Ads: Wants and offers submitted by member.
22      Date Nails for sale: Sets of date nails offered by Charles
        Sebesta, with prices listed.
23      Santa Fe nails for sale by Dee Horton/ Larry Ostermyer's
        list of needs
24      Spring Date Nail Show information / with map

If you wish to subscribe, go here:

http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/Resources.htm#TDNCA

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Interesting photographs and captions from a recent metal detecting trip
looking for railroad related articles from Jim and Marjorie Leitschuh
<jl-ml@msn.com>.  They may be seen at

http://www.websterzdesign.com/cgi-bin/carolyn.pl?read=6607

they display a nice handful of nails that they dug up.

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Reports from the Spring Date Nail show
It was held in Salisbury, NC on March 14-15 and was hosted by Allen
Stanley <ars2nd@aol.com>.  Sounds as if everyone came away with some
nails that they were looking for.  Among those in attendance were: Bill
McClellan, Don Blake, Bruce Gordon, Charles Sebesta, George Oliva, Buz
Johnston, Dave Parmalee, Tom Meyer, Ray Canole along with others and
several wives.  Jeff Oaks was there on Friday.  By all reports everyone
had a good time and went home with better nails than they came with.

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Want ad
"My boyfriend works for Norfolk Southern and has a good collection of
date nails, but he is looking for a 21, 59, and 60. Can you help? Please
email me at <bbsays79@yahoo.com> thank you."

#####.#####.#####.#####.#####.
Wayne Gregory <pgregory@accessbee.com> reports an important note
regarding the Tidewater Southern nail set.  The Tidewater Southern was
an electric line owned by the Western Pacific until the Union Pacific
took it and the WP over in 1987.  And although the WP did not use nails
the Tidewater Southern did.  The odd thing reported by Wayne is that all
tie nails were located in the end of the ties, which required a lot of
digging to retrieve nails.  They were on the eastern end of the tie, as
this line went mainly north/south in the Central Valley of California.
Thanks to Wayne for that information.

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In order for this list to remain viable we need contributions from
recipients.  If you have nail information, stories to share,  nail
questions, nails that you are looking for, or nails that you want to
sell or trade, please forward that information either to myself
<rollandmeyers@compuserve.com> or Jeff <oaks@uindy.edu>.  As of this
writing I am in the process of changing my server so at this juncture it
might be better to forward questions to Jeff for the next issue.
######.#.#.###########.######.#

Notes from Jeff:
First, I received the latest issue of _Spikes, Ties and Rails_, the
quarterly publication of the North American Railroad Maintenance-of-Way
Association.  Articles include part 2 of my "Brief History of Date
Nails" and "Driving Spikes" (by machine).  Lots of nice photos enhance
this eight page issue.  Subscriptions are $10.00/year.  Info can be
found at:

http://www.drbens.com/narrmowa.htm

Second, A copy of my book sold on eBay for $52.88 plus $6.00 s/h!  Of
course it is still available for $25.00 post paid.  When buying ANY book
on eBay, check to see if the book is still in print!  Soon I may sell my
book through the web auction too, charging $25.00 (or maybe $26.00 to
cover eBay costs).

-----------
Happy nailing!   ---Rolland



Subject: Nail Notes 5-6-03
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 16:32:57 -0600

Please make a note of my new e-mail address:  Rolland@RollandMeyers.com
---Rolland

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I recently received a copy of one of the first books written on the
subject of date nail collecting, DATE NAILS BROUGHT UP TO DATE (vol.
II), from the author Joseph W. Lewis. It was printed in 1975 and is as
it says on the cover...."a pictorial guide to the Identification and
Classification of Date Nails." Although, because it was one of the first
books on the subject, some of the sets are not complete or are not totally
accurate, the photography alone is worth having. The book has the best
photographic representation of the nails known then that I have seen.
This book was published one year before Date Nails Complete by Wiswell
and Evans who devised the Wesis system of nail classification by types.
There is a good photographic section in the back of the Lewis book that
shows the newly devised system and the markings on the shanks.

When I received the book I also received the following e-mail from
Joseph regarding the publication of this volume. Many collectors might
be interested in the effort that went into the production of this (at
the time) cutting edge of the hobby..... (rolland meyers. Ed).

April 11, 2003....

"I will tell you a little of my story and I hope I don't bore you. Getting
the good pictures in the book was no accident, but there was an accident
involved. I don't think anybody in the nail world knows all these details,
as I did not share them before.

As a sophomore in High School I volunteered to be the high school annual
photographer. They sent me to photography camp each summer at Trinity
University in San Antonio. I loved it and soon became pretty good at it. I
made it both a hobby and a money-making side job. I took photography in
college too. Over the years I spent a lot of time in the darkroom cropping,
enlarging, adjusting print contrast and degree of darkness.

When I started taking photos of the good collections of the time,
collections of nailers like George and Lil Hull, R.D. Dick Hughes, etc, I
was ready to do it right. My friend Leon Sorenson helped me a lot as he had
devised a styrofoam cutting system for nail display boards. I had him cut
blocks for me that would be about page size for the book I wanted to print.
We had the nails on one inch centers. Leon used peg board as a guide and a
soldering rod to burn the holes into the blocks. Then when I printed the
photos of nails in the darkroom I made sure the final results were also on
one inch centers. Therefore the photos are exactly the same size as the
actual nails!

I carried my copy stand and cameras around to nail shows and visited my nail
friends in Texas, Louisiana and Arkansas from 1972 through 1974 getting
shots of the most complete sets of the time. I worked hard on getting the
right lighting and shadows on the nails so you could usually tell if the
nail was raised or indented. Not all the photos are as good as I wanted,
but sometimes I could not go back and shoot them again as the nails were
somewhere else!

By the end of the summer 1974 I was almost ready to go to press. I finished
all the prints, graduated from college, was commissioned in the Army and
went off to fight the Cold War. I arranged with a commercial printer in
Lufkin to do the printing, and demanded higher quality glossy paper and
finer screening on the offset lithography for Vol 2. -- better than what I
could afford when I printed Vol 1. I borrowed money at my Dad's bank,
signed a contract with the printer, and scheduled the book bindery for
binding.

After Shorty Bemelman (from Lufkin) and his family reviewed the proof copy
for me, we went to press. The printer was to ship the product directly to
the Texas Book Bindery in Waco (probably the best bindery in the South. My
mother was a librarian and knew where to get the work done!)
When the binding was done, they shipped all the books to Nacogdoches.
That is when I got the call from my father. Each copy of the book had
several pages that had large black blobs of ink on them! Almost every book
was spoiled. We were crushed and heartbroken. After talking to the
printer, we figured out that a new pressman had been put on this job,
and he
had failed to discard the first 20 or so copies of each page that always
contain too much ink. (This is just the way offset printing works.) So the
bad pages were inserted into the books by mistake. The printer felt
terrible about the mistake and agreed to print it again at no additional
charge. Another 2000 copies were shipped to the bindery, bound to
professional standards and shipped to Nacogdoches. The bad copies sat in my
Dad's attic until 1992. After he died, I cleaned out the attic, hauled the
many cases of spoiled books to the landfill, and sadly said goodbye to them.
Well this is probably more info than you ever wanted to know! Hope you
enjoy using the book as much as I enjoyed creating it! And I appreciate
those of you (especially my friend Jeff Oaks) who will kindly overlook the
book's many mistakes."

Best regards,

Joe

########.##.#########.#.#.#
In a recent email, Charles and Cheryl Johnson <haskell@centurytel.net>
from Montana report some really important nail findings in that state.
They also provided some wonderful photographs to validate their finds.

Their email reads in part.........

"Butte Anaconda & Pacific: We found several 34 18Bs several 35
18Bs and a couple 37 18Cs, not to mention several 61 (06) Indented. But
the find of the day were three 2 1/2 X 1/4 rnd R 18B 36s. We found two
of them in the center of the ties. But, the third one we found in a tie
that had been removed and was laying along side the tracks. The
interesting note on this 36 was that it was on the bottom of the tie,
that was placed against the ground. I don't think the tie was a used
tie when it was installed, for there was no sign of pre-existing track
plate wear or spike holes on that side of the tie. I am of the opinion
that these nails were placed in the ties prior to insertion in the rail
line for it was also located in the center of the tie. (See Butte
Anaconda & Pacific (20) ) Jeff's book makes no reference to this nail
ever being used, but, I don't think 3 of them within a half a mile
constitutes a fluke. It makes a person wonder how many more of these
nails are on the bottom side of ties. The other two photographs of 36s
(BAP 9 & 12) were the two that we found on top of the tie, between the
rails. This makes a great addition to our almost complete Butte,
Anaconda and Pacific set. All we are lacking is the (06) Indented - 44
and 55, and the (07) 15.

Northern Pacific: Big Timber MT. We started out early in the
morning looking for pole nails along the old Northern Pacific line.
After walking nearly a mile and not finding any nails, we approached a
swampy area filled with cattails and reeds. The first pole that we
encountered in that area had an indented (07) 33. Within that group of
poles were also a couple of sqr (05) 52s, a couple sqr (05) 38s a sqr
(05) 27 and a sqr (05) 28. Upon exiting the marshy area, the walking
got a lot better, for it was just flat pastureland. The next pole
yielded the best of all. A 2 1/2 X 1/4 sqr I (05) 43. As we remembered
there was no listing for the 43 in Jeff's list of NP nails. (See Big
Timber to Livingston 39) The next quarter of a mile of poles yielded
absolutely nothing and by now we were nearly 2 miles from the pick up.
The next pole was equally astounding as the last since it contained a 2
1/2 X 1/4 sqr I (05) 29, which was also not listed in Jeff's book. The
next 30 poles yielded the same type 29 nail in each one. We are
positive that these are Northern Pacific nails since they were found
along an old NP line and no other line ran in that area. (See Big Timber
to Livingston 32)."

So it is probably safe to say that the 61 (06) 2 1/2 x 1/4 ri, stl nail
that has been mentioned as being a possible unused BA&P nail and a nail
used in catenary poles now legitimately belongs in the regular set. The
three 1936 (18B) 2 1/2 x 1/4 rr, stl. nails are also a new find in the
BA&P ties.  But the question posed by Charles and Cheryl is a valid one.
Were these 36's put into the ties before or after the ties were put down?

The finds on the NP poles were very significant. Without a doubt the 29
(05) 2 1/2 x 1/4 sq indent, stl. nail should be added to the NP pole set.
The 1943 was another good find. Since it was still in the pole, plus
previous reports of this nail being used as a NP pole nail, pretty well
substantiate that nails use by NP.

Great finds in Montana and thanks for sharing the information and the
wonderful photography.

Here are the pics:
http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/Johnson/1.jpg
http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/Johnson/2.jpg
http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/Johnson/3.jpg
http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/Johnson/4.jpg
http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/Johnson/5.jpg

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Larry Harvey <shirlelary@prairieinet.net> recently acquired some square
raised (05) 28 and 29 (pictured on page 14 of volume III), and he thinks
they might be railroad tie nails.  Does anyone know if these nails have
slipped our attention?

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Wayne Gregory <wpgregory@accessbee.com> has been pulling nails on the
Almanor line in Northern California. He spent five years, at different
times, walking the entire railroad and has found some nails that have
not been noted before. Most of these are one of a kinds, but they
deserve noting in case others will be found in the future (or already
have been found?).

Here is the list that Wayne supplied. All were pulled by him from ties
that were not reused.

1 1/2 x 1/4  rnd R   stl (18C) 48,49,53
2     x 1/4  rnd R   stl (06) 48,59,61
2     x 1/4  rnd R   stl (18C) 48,49,49*,50,51,52,53
2 1/2 x 1/4  rnd R   stl (18C) 51,58,59,60,61,62
2 1/2 x 1/4  rnd R   stl (06) 53,56
2 1/2 x 1/4  rnd I   stl (06) 54

He also lists a 2 7/8 x 1/2(!) rnd I  stl (06) 54.
We think this may be a typo.  Wayne says it "looks like a fat finishing
nail."  Also, the (06) 1953 may be a pole nail.  The 49* has a broken
die.  It has been reported by others.
 

---Rolland Meyers

Nail Notes is mailed by:
--
Jeff Oaks, Associate Professor
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
University of Indianapolis
1400 E. Hanna Ave.
Indianapolis, IN 46227
317-788-3454; oaks@uindy.edu



Subject: Nail Notes 5-21-03
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:47:59 -0600
From: Jeff Oaks <oaks@uindy.edu>

This is a brief Nail Notes to inform collectors about the July nail show:

The details for the Summer date nail show have been finalized.  It will
be in Ellsworth, Kansas at the American Legion Hall, July 25th & 26th.
Set up time will begin at 4:00pm, Thursday, July 24th.  Marvin Bush
(913-472-4274) is the Show Chairman.  The Best Western in Ellsworth has
a number of rooms on Thursday night, but there may be a problem on Friday.

----------------------------------

One other item:  the sale of eBay item 2174884798 ends in 10+ hours.  It
contains four European nails:  malleable iron cast 98, 02, 04, and 05.
Steve Worboys and I pulled lots of these in Luxemboug (97, 00, 02-14)
and France (03-14).  I hope the bidders know that they are foreign!

---Jeff Oaks

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2174884798&category=4124
 
 
 
 
 

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