Nail Notes--Nov. 2003 & Jan. 2004

Subject: Nail Notes 11-10-03
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:28:53 -0600
From: Jeff Oaks <oaks@uindy.edu>
Organization: University of Indianapolis
To: undisclosed-recipients:;

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I am looking to buy N&W nails #21, 58, 59 and 60. Can you help me?
Thanks for any info.

Butch Tweedy <btweede@earthlink.net>

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Santa Fe treatment tags (with pics!)

Clark and Garrett Nelson <Lngcolt@aol.com> have found some Santa Fe
treatment tags in New Mexico. New ties were still being inserted in
this test section in 1968 or possibly later! We know that
theSomerville, TX test section, which yielded hundreds of these
treatment tags, may have been active into the mid-1960's, though most
ties seem to be from the 1920's to the 1940's. Here are excerpts from
their e-mail notes:

"My son and I just received your nailer update online and have come
across an unusual tie marker on the BNSF line north of Radium Springs,
New Mexico along with some very good 48, 50, 52 and one 44 nail. We are
sending an attached file with some pictures shot this afternoon of this
marker on the line at the Medler, NM siding.

"The 0 was held down with 68's and there was one that has 63's as well.
We really didnít scrape the creosote off of the other couple we found as
it was getting late and we were trying to get the pictures we sent to
you...This particular section of track is crammed between the Rio Grande
River and the desert mountains and is on the river bed floor which at
times still floods up against the track bed! We do notice that the older
ties are mostly along sections of track that have the most elevation in
relation to the river itself. I surmise this is because of less water
damage over the years.

"I forgot a little more info on this marker. They are about 1"x1" square
and altho we only sent pics of this one with a 2 on it, we also found a
couple more, one with a O and another that is covered with grease or
creosote so we didn't really take the time to mess with it. Thanks again
for nail notes, we do enjoy reading them and my son who is 11 really
does take an interest in the nails. { he has approximately 30+}"

http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/SFetag1.jpg
http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/SFetag2.jpg

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In a note from Mrs. Duane Gunderson I was informed that her husband
passed away last August.

I had never communicated with or knew him, but thought others might want
to hear of his passing. He was number 145 of the Texas Date Nail
Collectors Association, so he had been collecting nails for at least
thirty years.

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Ken Moser's quest: a nail from each state

You may recall a request from Ken Moser <kbmoser@insightbb.com> asking
for help in finding nails in a few states. Ken is trying to pull at
least one nail from every state in the U.S. This is an update from Ken:

"Thanks to you all, I now have some Michigan nails that I pulled when I
was up there last week. I first found quite a few on the old Ann Arbor
line NW of Cadillac. They are tearing the line out, but I was able to
find 1934 through 1948 (except for 1946). I don't know how to identify
them, but they are steel, round raised, 1/4th inch shank and about 2
inches long. Then we stayed in a cabin over in Tawas on Lake Huron and I
found nails on the Detroit and Mackinac north of Bay City. I found the
1948 sqr I plus 50,51,53,54,55,56,59 all rnd raised and listed on page
160 vol I of Jeff's book. I also found a 1928 sqr raised and a 1963 rnd
raised that are both about 2& 1/2 inches long and not listed in the
book. So it was a great trip, especially since I would have been happy
to find only one. I did leave a lot of nails for the next guy - but some
dates I only found one which I pulled.

"Now I need to locate a nail in Deleware & one in South Carolina & I
will have pulled at least one nail in each of the lower 48 states. My
Georgia nails are switch tie nails (the # is the # of feet the tie is
long) so I may still try to get a date nail there. I have looked several
times in quite a few different places in GA & SC, but no luck, except
for the switch nails.

"Thanks a lot for your help, Ken"

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Louisville, Henderson and St. Louis: New Finds

from George R. Oliva, Jr. <gro1@infionline.net>

When I was scheduling a business trip to the Louisville, KY area for
September 22-23, given that I had to arrive on Sunday, I contacted Bruce
Gordon, TDCA # 1320, to see if we could arrange to go nail hunting
Sunday afternoon. Bruce agreed to meet me for a hunt and Jeff Oaks
suggested we look on the LH&StL line. Bruce told me he had hunted that
line 5 times in the past two years and only found nails twice but had
scoped out some areas that looked promising. We met in Louisville around
2 PM and headed out to Ekron, KY where there once was a passing siding.

Below is a timetable from the L&N in 1941 for that line.

The LH&StL was merged into the L&N in June, 1929. Jeff Oaks book lists
only six nails belonging to the LH&StL:

2 1/2 x 1/4 rnd R stl (07) 23
2 1/2 x 1/4 sqr R stl (07) 24
2 1/2 x 1/4 sqr R rs stl (07) 25-27
2 1/2 x 1/4 rnd R stl (01) 28

When we arrived in Ekron, we saw the remains of an old siding with
promising old ties still in place, however there were no nails! We then
started walking down the ROW looking for both tie and pole nails and
found nothing. We then found a stretch where there were discarded ties
partially buried along the ROW and our first find was an L&N 2 x 1/4 rnd
R stl (07) 34:b in the center of a tie. We then started to find the
LH&StL square, round shaft nails which were positioned outside the rails
on the discarded ties. We also uncovered a good number of lizards and
one hornets nest while unearthing ties! Next we found 27, 28 and 29 rnd
R stl (01)ís OUTSIDE THE RAIL! Since L&N nails are found in the center
of ties {after 1921, (Bruce Gordon found some (04) 31s' on the outside
at Midway,Ky a couple years ago which he thinks were a fluke)}, we
concluded that both the 27 and 29 type 1ís belong in the LH&StL set thus
complementing the 28 type 1 attributed to the set.

Some of the nails (after cleaning) we found are pictured below.

The only nail in the LH&StL set we did not find was the 2 1/2 x 1/4 sqr
R stl (07) 24.

Also note that the 2 1/2 x 1/4 rnd R stl (07) 23 was found OUTSIDE THE
RAIL, indicating again that this is a LH&StL nail thus the note in
Jeff's book

"It is possible that the 23 is from a second hand L&N tie" can be eliminated.

http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/LHStL.jpg

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The latest edition of Nailer News came out the first part of October.
Vol.33. Number 3 - Summer 2003. It
contained 28 pages.

PAGE ARTICLE
1 Photos of some of the attendees at the last nail show at
Ellsworth, KS

2 Notes from the editors desk

3 Notes on the upcoming spring show at Portales, NM and an article
by Rolland Meyers on the UP 1918GM (07) nail being found.

4-5 Date Nails on the L&N by Bruce Gordon

6-12 Hubbard & Company by Jerry Penry. Article about the history of
Hubbard Nails and the company that made them.

12-13 List of trophy winners at the Ellsworth show with accompaning photos.

14-15 Photo layout by Charles Sebesta showing some of the stubby
indents, Illinois Central odd shaped nails and others.

16-17 Western Union Telegraph Nails by Rolland Meyers

18 Syracuse (New York) Light Co. by John Iacovino.

19-21 Photos of odd and hard to find nails and old ink blotter
advertising from RR tie mfg. By Charles Sebesta.

22-24 Rutland Railroad and Vermont Railway Revisited by John Iacovino.

24 A few more photos from Ellsworth and list of upcoming shows.

25 Disney World Date Nails by Jerry Penry.

26-28 In Memory/New Members/Members Welcome back/Address Changes/
Classified Ads

and an ad for Jeff Oaks' Book _Date Nails and Railroad Tie Preservation_.

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New UP switch nails

For those who collect the Union Pacific foot (switch tie length) nails
you can add these to the sets.

Set #4: 11' 6" (07) 2 x 1/4 rr, stl. No Gripper marks.

I had one and received another recently.

Set #5: 18FT (07) 2 x 1/4 rr, stl. Gripper Marks.

Found by Arn Kriegh (TDNCA #834) and brought to the Ellsworth show.

http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/UPSet4_11-6.jpg

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New finds on the NP?

Tim Martin <martin@maqs.net> has found 2 1/2 x 1/4 rnd I stl (07)
21,22,23 on the NP. One 21, three 22's, and three 23's were found in
ties in NP Ryís Northtown yard in Minneapolis, MN (the yard was being
replaced). Also, an acquaintace of his found one "P" "in a crude
looking tie that was fat and out of proportion (not standard). It was
composed of a soft wood, pople or pine. He thought the composition was
popple, instead of pine."

We would like to know if anyone else has found these nails, or if any of
you have thoughts on their origins.

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I would like to take this space to thank those of you who submitted
items for this edition of Nail Notes and hope that others will take the
time to submit findings, questions and general information relating to
the hobby. I hope to hear from the rest of you as that is what keeps
this hobby alive and interesting.

Rolland Meyers [ed.]// Rolland@RollandMeyers.com

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Nail Notes 1/9/04 10:37 AM

Happy new year to all! Let's get right to the nails:

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A new variety of the 1938 (60) 1 1/4 x 3/16 round raised copper Circle C

nail used by the Milwaukee Road has been noted. It seems as if the
Milwaukee Road had varieties of almost all of its copper nails but this
it the first report for this particular 1938 C rim nail.

See the attached scan:
http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/1938milvar.jpg

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A reminder to those of you who belong to the TDNCA. The annual dues for
2004 are still $16.00 and are due. For those who are not members, here
is your chance to sign up and receive the quarterly Nailer News and the
TDNCA Membership list, with names, addresses, phone numbers and
information about particular interests of the members. You will also
receive a membership card and membership number. Please mail dues to
Secretary-Treasurer Jerry Waits at 501 West Horton, Brenham, Texas 77833

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From Willard Hamill <willardhamill@yahoo.com>: I need a 1940 [Virginian
Railway 1940 (04) 2 1/2 x 1/4 rr, stl.] to make two full sets, and would

like to trade if someone has a ‘40. All of them came from the Roanoke to

Stewartsville area. My home, as a boy, was within sight of the Boaz
pusher stop east of Vinton on the old N & W main where Winston Link made

some pictures and recordings. That area now has soccer fields where one
of Link’s recordings caught the mooing of a cow. My N & W nails came
from this section as well as the Galax and Saltville branches. I made
only one trip to the Creeper when I found only 1953's. I look forward to

getting your e-mails.

Willard Hamill

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From Bruce Gordon <gordon6548@bellsouth.net> in Finchville, KY:

Could it be a :b?? I recently made a trade with veteran nailer Bill
Bunch. I sent him a hand full of Type (07) rr 2 1/2 x 1/4 24s. out of
one of my trader cans made a quick QC check and sent them on there way.
a few days latter I received an Email from Bill requesting a couple more

of the 24s' with the large cosset on the 4. He told me he pulled the
same type nail in Illinois from a pole years ago. I went on a nail hunt
through my cans and foam and found seven more, unfortunately all not in
as good as shape as I like.This was the first time I went nailing and
never left home.I was able to oblige him and a couple other guys who I
felt like I owed. Bills' keen eye discovered a new nail that had been
here all the time. Twenty to twenty five years. Could It be a :b?

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AIRPORT SECURITY: I recently went to the Boise area of Idaho to visit
relatives and while there pulled a few nails from Union Pacific ties.
Nothing special, but in fairly good shape so I decided to bring them
home. Usually I have check- in luggage and I put nails and puller in
them. But not on this trip. All I had was carry-on. There were just a
few nails so figured no one would care if I put a couple of nails in the

carry-on. WRONG!! My carry-on set off all the dingers in the Boise
Airport and soon I was standing in a separate area with my shoes off, my

belt off, and other personal garments in disarray! After they re-x-rayed

the luggage a third time they decided to open it. As they were doing
this I told them about the Union Pacific using date nails.........

Finally, one of the security people (six total) standing around me as
this inspection was on going spoke up and said that he had some of these

at home and "vouched" that they were indeed UP date nails. Nevertheless,

I was told that they could not accompany me on my trip. I told them to
discard them...DUMP ‘EM!! They would have none of that. They said the
nails were very old and very collectable and should not be just dumped.
I then offered the nails to the security inspector that said he had some

at home. He said that there was no way he could accept them as it was
strictly against the rules!

Well, it ended up that one of them walked me all the way back out of the

security area to a far corner of the airport where there was a small
mail facility. Waited there while I mailed them to myself and then
walked me back through security where my wife was waiting.

So this is just a heads up to anyone that gets lucky and finds a mother
lode of 21 (07) square raised N&W nails or a few Bullseye Santa Fe 4's
on a vacation. Send them to yourself and do not try to take them home
with you by aircraft in your carry on luggage.
<rolland@rollandmeyers.com>

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Here is a one of a kind story. Dennis Back <backden@bellsouth.net> is a
collector of all things related to Thomas Edison and not a nail
collector. Recently, on EBAY he spotted an item being offered listed as
"Thomas Edison-Face & Name on Large Spike, nail." It was apparently
missed by nail collectors as it was not listed as a date nail or pole
nail. (Too bad for the seller!). There was an accompanying photo of an
embossed aluminum hubbard nail with the likeness of Thomas Edison. After

Dennis won the bid on the nail he contacted Jeff Oaks asking what the
nail was used for. Jeff did not know so sent an email to Charles
Sebesta, Jerry Penry and myself. We had never seen one before either,
but from the Hubbard stamp on the back of the head Jerry said that it
was manufactured in the 1939-1962 time frame. The seller had no
information as to its origin or history. Anyone reading these Nail Notes

have any idea the history of this very unique nail? If so would you
please forward that information to Dennis at the above email address and

also to me <rolland@rollandmeyers.com> so I can add that to the next
Nail Notes. See photos of this rare find here:

http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/Edison.jpg

I am sure the seller wishes he had reworded the listing!! It ended up
being sold for $19.00 plus postage!

There is at least one other example of a "factory sample" type Hubbard
nail. This is a copper Hubbard made for the Chase Co. It is in the
collection of Scott Weed <nailhunter@houston.rr.com> of Houston, TX.
Here is a scan of Scotts nail:

http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/chase.jpg

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Another note from Bruce Gordon <gordon6548@bellsouth.net> of Finchville,
KY.

Took a little trip near Frankfort, Ky on 12/26 to the (Old Road) of the
L&N. It was recently bought by R.J. Corman Railroad Group. My friend
Rick and I pulled eight Date Nails from Poles (19) 39 and 42's,
twenty-one from fence post-ties (07) 29, 30, (19) 37's and several (04)
38's all 2"except the 29, 30 and 42. We also found a type (19) 2 x 1/4
37 in a tie on the main line still in service. Happy New Year, Bruce

http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/PDR1.jpg
http://facstaff.uindy.edu/~oaks/NailNotes/PDR2.jpg

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The Spring Date Nail Show is scheduled to be held in Portales, NM on
April 16-17, 2004. Portales is twelve miles south of Clovis, NM. As an
added bonus this show will be held in conjunction with a model
train/railroadiana show at the same location, the Roosevelt County
Fairgrounds at Portales. The two shows will be separate but within
walking distance of each other. It would be good to see a good turnout
at this Nail Show. A chance to meet other collectors, swap, buy or sell
some nails, and trade stories.

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Nail Notes is edited by Rolland Meyers, and mailed by Jeff Oaks.
If you wish to be removed from the list, write your request to:
oaks@uindy.edu.

------------------------------------ Nail Notes is edited by: Rolland Meyers Oakland, CA Rolland@RollandMeyers.com

and is mailed by: Jeff Oaks, Associate Professor Department of Mathematics and Computer Science University of Indianapolis 1400 E. Hanna Ave. Indianapolis, IN 46227 317-788-3454; oaks@uindy.edu

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